>>neil: hollywood loves him. today, today, today the first indication average americans, well, not so much. welcome, everyone, after same-sex marriage, clearly not your same old poll because according to the latest poll, not your same old tight presidential race. a survey just out has mitt romney up seven, that's right, seven points over the president. among those likely voters all of which could explain why mitt romney was campaigning in north carolina today. ring a bell? the very state in which votes made clear this week their preference for an amendment defining marriage as a union fine a man and a woman.

something governor romney echoed when we spoke 24 hours ago. >> do not change your position to try and win states or certain subgroups of americans you have the positions you have. and if a long time from the beginning of my political career i made it very clear i believe marriage should be a relationship between a hand and a woman. i know other people have differenting views but that is my view. >>neil: that was then. remember, president obama won north carolina by less than 1 percent in 2008. is he wrecking losing it and other swing states with this decision to week? political maestro larry sabato says it is a major risk. lou do you see it? >>guest: on north carolina, it is more than a risk. it is clearly leaning to romney. what happened on gay marriage made it more in romney's camp.

so he capitalized on that by just going to north carolina although he mainly talked about the economy. >>neil: do you think this latest poll, the latest snapshot we have and as you always remind me, remember, november is a long way off. last time i checked this is may so it can change. but that is an alarming response. >>guest: that is a big margin for romney. i would say the clear politics average, i love real clear politics and urge people to look what they have, their average is a tie, 46. >>neil: that averages the polls. >>guest: yes, an average. it is a close competitive race and i can say this were, if president obama is at 43 or 45 or 46 in october he is going to

lose because the undecided go disproportionately against the incull bent. but we are a long way from october. we don't know. >>neil: do you read anything that this is a disparity between national polls that say americans are split on the same-sex marriage issue but in individual states, including north carolina this week 2-1 against, and oddly enough, in ohio, it was overwhelmingly against. this was a democratic poll. so, is that going to hurt? or by november is it just noise? >>guest: well, why think we will talk about gay marriage in october. i hope not. the country is in trouble and there are other things to focus on that have more direct relevance. however, what you will see on the democratic side, obviously obama will use that to get more

money out of the gay and lesbian community and he will get enthusiasm from that community and what romney is doing with it is solidifying the group of voters least excited about him in the primary, evangelical. tomorrow he goes to a university in virginia and i don't know if he will bring up gay marriage but i can tell you ever develop -- evangelicals are more excited about romney this week than last week. >>neil: your contempt if the other guy can offset your look warm feelings to the present guy? >>guest: this is american politics. hate and fear is much more important to our politics than love and hope. >>neil: a last question for you, dick morris made a distinction between polls that

are among registered voters which is the lion's share, versus those among most likely voters which i guess is the rasmussen poll. which is a better barometer? does it matter? >>guest: well, actually, at this point in time, i would go with registered voters because we don't yet know what percentage of each major subgroup will be excited enough to cast a ballot either absentee or on november 6. but i would say mid-to-late summer you have to switch the likely voters. likely is a better indication as you actually get in to the general election period. although we have had campaigning for weeks and weeks and months and months we are not in the general election yet. >>neil: you are right. three close states the president won and took what usually republican territory, north

carolina, virginia and ohio they are title now. does this issue tip them to romney if all things are equal. does this issue tip them to republicans? >>guest: i think the two states that are tipped to the republicans with gay marriage on the economy are north carolina and month -- missouri. indiana was going to revert to republican ways before the same-sex marriage issue came up. virginia has changed more since 2008 when president obama won it. that we will have to wait-and-see. >>neil: professor, good to see you. $1 million to a super pac supporting romney and then was listed on obama website among eight wealthy individuals with

less than reputable reports a multi-millionaire who runs a wellness company in idaho and people are digging into his divorce reports and he says he will not be intimidated. we called the obama campaign for a response. we are waiting to hear. this sounds bizarre, sir, but we are getting all sorts of reports they have been looking into your marriages, et cetera. >>guest: well, thank you for talking to me today. when we made the donation in august the, it was the super pac went public with the donors i believe in john and we got a little bit of flak, a few bloggers said a few things but when president obama's campaign came out and listed as one of

the eight on the enemy's list as being whatever he said about us, i think he said we were antigay, i am, personally, which could not be further from the truth, but, that's when everything if our life changed. >>neil: you donated how much, like $1 million? >>guest: a million. yes. >>neil: this michael wolf, he used to be an intern with senator levin and he started looking around, you know, records in your town trying to dig up information on divorces and do you know? has anyone tracked him down? what was he up to? >>guest: well, the "wall street journal" reporter who did the investigation, she could tell you more who he is. but she told us. for a while he was working for

the permanent investigation, the permanent subcommittee on investigations for the senate and that is what, where we thought he was but he left them, he says. and is doing, working for someone else so we did not know if this is an investigation for them or someone else. >>neil: our own megyn kelly talked earlier and there were odd looking around but the list also included paul shore, with the blackstone group, and sam and jeffrey fox, harvard group. and the only tie in was you all gave, i guess, to the republican pac, being supportive of mitt romney. how soon after that did you start getting the reports of people investigating you?

your name coming up on enemy's list? >>guest: right away. we got hit with all of this electronic media so-called journalists doing reports. some of it started right away and they made a lot of false accusations. >>neil: the antigay thing came up in your case and other organizations including the news channel pounced on that. i thought i would give you the opportunity to respond. >>guest: on theant -- the antigay issue? i have many gay friends who had all kinds of questions about this and some of these people i respect a great deal and they respect and love me and those that i know well were not affected but if people who did not know me, members of our business or customers and they read this, we got a barrage of phone calls canceling their

membership with us. >>neil: how many did that? >>guest: a couple hundred that we can track. for sure. >>neil: do you have grounds to sue? >>guest: i suppose we did. >>neil: are you going to do that? >>guest: this are so many. i would not know who to sue. they quote each other. tout each other. we have sent a few letters out to some of these folks. and some took their sites down and some just responded that we were trying to bully them. it is too much to handle, really. >>neil: for you to land on an enemy's list that takes some doing. do you want an apology from the president? or then on the campaign? >>guest: well that would be a wait of time. i have not heard him apologize

to anyone. >>neil: will you continue to giving to romney or the pac's supportive of his campaign? >>guest: at first i was worried about this. i knew a target was strapped to my back and i started to worry. then i thought, this is america. this should not be happening. if we cower we invite more. i am undeterred. i think mitt romney would make a great president and he can town this country around. he is a turn around artist. he turned around the olympics and he can turn around this country. he is the right man for this job. i will support him more than i was originally. we thought we were done with donations and we did our part

but, clearly we will stand up and get more involved in the campaign and we hope other people join us and everyone should get out their check become. this should not be tolerated in america. it might happen in other countries where they scare them away from a candidate but it should not happen here this is america. i am only 63 and i have not seen all of history and i am not a history buff but i don't think any president has ever done this before where he made a list, the campaign, and put the list out for everyone to go after and slur. maybe, maybe people will continue to come after me and they will not focus on everyone and everyone gets their check back out it will prove that the tactics will not work in our country. >>neil: it is odd, be well, sir. and we are still waiting to hear from the president's campaign. the call is out.

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>>neil: i asked a couple of our lawyers look into what mr. vandersloot has been talking about here, he has been targeted and people are going through his records and personal and marriage records. it does not sound right to me. i don't know if you can even do this or how someone like this opinions up on an enemy's list but i have asked our producers to get the lawyers together to explore whether this is a big deal. whether it is legal or not. whether this sounds fishy. so, if you are stay tuned for

that. don't mess with the press, a republican senator is standing up and fighting back over new labor department rules basically letting the department pick and choose how reporters cover the job numbers and not if my next guest can help it, senator, we are showing part of the letter you sent to the labor secretary. what is crucial when the jobs data comes out, at 8:30 sharp, the first friday morning of the month, usually, and it is probably the most coveted and most valued and most surprised of all, the economic data we get from the government but this is a form to how the government lets that data come out andí.+ñ would releases it, you think there is something odd going on here. >> there are 20 years of precedent here and what happens now is you are able as a news gathering organization to use your own soft wary the way you have always handized this material based on historic trends and you send it out when the switch is split on a dedicated lean and what the

government is saying, we want you to use our program, our computer, we want to send it out through one system which makes it easier for someone to momentarily try to interrupt and somehow confuse. this is critically important material for how the economy works and the jobs numbers and the weekly jobless numbers, and the new consumer price index, the new produce are price index, and this is information the american people and people all over the world need to have confidence in. >>neil: but maybe what is interesting, and i understand what you are saying, maybe they are saying, the labor department, we did not want someone to take advantage of this, someone with just a few seconds early warning could tradeoff of this. >>guest: they don't have that. they are in a room without electricity available to communicate out. they don't have that is the question is do you want news agencies to use their own equipment and sanity out over a number of different lines all at once or do you want it to go

through one place that the government controls? >>neil: that is how they do it now. how does the government did it now, senator? >>guest: if department years they have let basically everyone have a dedicated line, able to come in with their thumb drive or whatever and analyze software on it, and put the information in. it goes out, maybe, as do different ways opposed to threw one line and even the cyber security of one line could create a huge problem on the market. remember a fewi$u years ago some got some numbers in their computer wrong and it causes a big sell off and all kinds of impact on the market? what if someone could get into the one line opposed to the dozens of different lines that go out at the same time but they go out on dedicated lines. i don't know why government wants do do there and i asked the secretary of labor for their reason. and i have been surprised by the

response from both the users of the information and the people in the press who distribute the information all of whom think the current system is better than the new system. >>neil: we will watch it closely. thank you, senator. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals. could you hold on a second? it's your money. roll over your old 401(k) into a fidelity ira and take control of your personal economy. this is going to be helpful. call or come in today. fidelity investments. turn here.

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>>neil: he could do no wrong and now jamie dimon can do nothing wrong the man at top of j.p. morgan chase is socked for a bad bull's eye on his back over europe, the head of the securities and exchange commission saying it is safe to say all regulators are focused on this. so, washington, dc, all worked up over what will amount to close to $1 billionless in a quarter, not so worked up over the $4 billion added to our debt

every day. one guy who is worked up is market watcher. jim, it is weird, i'm not condoning or forgiving or getting a handle on what happened at this firm, but, i guess i am worried about the wrong people believing it. >>guest: the last thing we need is another big bill and another new piece of regulation. fix what they have. they don't understand what they have. this administration has a history of putting together big bills with lots of thursday clips and put vague powers in the hands of unnamed regulators and they still don't know what the volcker rule is, so, rather than get up in arms about this loss that will not hurt anyone but j.p. morgan chase bank how about clarifying the laws we have. what they have done is pushed up credit card fees and driven up debit card fees, so, they need

to fix what they have, first, and worry about any new legislation. >>neil: but we have plenty of legislation and new rules that kicked in with dodd-frank the new financial law that was supposed to address wild trading, one of the features that led to this j.p. morgan chase problem. but it is not weeds and i want to step out that and look at the swamp here and the swamp is a very, very expensive and regulatory laden law that didn't work. >>guest: it didn't work at all and they did not define anything clearly. a lot of the rules that are in place by dodd-frank, vague powers in the hands of unnamed regulator. no one knows what going on. the foxes are running around the h empty n house but they smarter than those that build them. >>neil: we increased the number of police, we have increased the number of oversite agencies policing the police, we now have a new consumer

protection bureau policing the police who police the police. with all of these chiefs, not one result that would be beneficial or prevent what was an incredibly bad trade gone even worse. >>guest: if they wanted it do something smart, they could just re-instate glass-steagall that makes it simpler. >>neil: that separated investment banking from traditional banking but that would be too easy. the bottom line is, this failed and, yet, the government policing it is the same government that has lost trillions of its own. >>guest: so they want to aplay more of the same bad medicine that made things worse. the six biggest banks control more assets than they did before the bill was put if place and beyond that, again, consumer credit card costs have gone up. debit fees are up. and nothing has been improved if consumers at all and not only that, it squeezed out small and

medium sized businesses because the big banks are dominating the asset base. >>neil: it would be like me walking into a health club and telling people, come on, get on the stick. you don't want to see that. nor do people want do see me in spandex. >>guest: until they figure out the definition of terms in terms of how the companies are doing business they have in business regulating. >>neil: before you police you have to know way are policing. bottom line, it is a mess. thank you, jim. the republican donor i spoke to claiming the obama campaign has him on an enemy's list and now some of those people are going through his personal stuff, i said it was weird, right? i have two leg -- legal eagles on it

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>>neil: i am not the sharpest tool not shed but we have a lot of other sharp tools in our shed and they are with me new getting into the issue of a guy who donated $1 million to the campaign and the ladies saying, whether that makes it right for you to be investigated and put open enemy's list and have people going through your personal effects, marriages and

diverses, that did not sound right to me, but i just read a teleprompter for a living. but, enough about me, back to them talking to me. my guests are ared to try this. can we do that again? we will do this in the middle, hitting the gong. >> horrible. is it legal? yes. to a point. when you donate those records are out there and they can be seen by anyone and this is horrible what happened, they went to his court records which are public documents, to fine and to threaten him. but, there is a line when you crosby saying, is it gay bashing thug. hello? that is slander. there is, now, a cause of action at that point. >>neil: when i asked whether he would sue, he lots a lot of

customers over the charges which turned out to be just wrong. what do you make of that? does he? >>guest: he has grounds to sue and part of having the ability to sue is suffering damages because you did not have a suit unless you can cover something and the fact he has lost business is a claim for damages. so, as far as statements being made about him that are slanderous but statements that are repeats of information found in court files against him or they have dug through prior divorce actions --. >>neil: with is that germane? the name and address of all the romney or obama donors but what does it matter? >>guest: it doesn't the but the problem with our privacy rights once the reports are public, court records are public, divorce records, an

employee problem there, that is out there in the public so people can get it. a point of, why are they getting it? what their we doing. >>neil: they are trying to delegitimize those who are giving money to romney. that is an enemy's list. is that itself illegal? >>guest: not really, in. you can gather information for purposes of delegitimizing someone but it better be accurate. if it is false, you are going to be sued. >>neil: does that give you a bad feeling that regardless --. >>guest: i have the list, i have a list, it is icky and not right. >>neil: the president has at his disposal all of these agencies, and clearly he is the guy overseeing all of this. >>guest: yes, it is legal. >>neil: it cannot be legal. i know law there is no way it is

legal. >>guest: perry mason. >>neil: is it really legal? >>guest: crazy use of public information. >>neil: in grounds to --. >>guest: gay bashing thug? that, to me, crosses the line. >>guest: i agree. >>neil: who do you sue? >>guest: do you sue the administration? do you sue -- it is not going to come back to the administration quickly but it will go, would got the information in do you go back to person saying it? yes. you cannot go to the administration. >>guest: you use the person who published the statement, those are the people would have liability, not the administration. not the administration. >>neil: what if the person going through the personal effects was a former aide and was hired, if that is the case. then ... if it turns out a democratic operative, yes, is that like a watergate deal?

>>guest: if you are a conspiracy theory person, but if the information is open on the public domain and any person can walk in to a courthouse and obtain the information and look at it, it is open to everyone. on >>guest: when you cross the line and use that information to say "gay bashing thug." >>neil: on an ethical basis this is wrong. it is wrong. >>guest: legally it is not. >>guest: but they crossed the line with the gay bashing thug comment. >>neil: we are getting word that the fitch rating agency has downgraded not surprisingly j.p. morgan chase because of the long term default rating from a+ to a "a-", and that is still investment grade, not junk, i stress, but all of this in light

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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? >>neil: not once, but twice, claiming the white house has two weeks after a congressman said student loans were cancer, and yesterday the vice president saying this. >> he compared federal student loans to "stage three cancer of socialism." stage three cancer of socialism. you all realize you are spreading socialism, don't you? which is cancerous. i have been here a long time, man, but this is ... this is

taking on a new dimension. >>neil: congressman, what did he thing of that and he joins me. we thought we would give you your due response. >>guest: the administration's persistence in misquoting what i said underlines the fact they are great at attacking people but lousy at attacking problems. >>neil: what did you say? explain what you said. >>guest: my quote was the stage three cancer of socialism i said america's threatened by that --. >>neil: because the federal government is tampering in all kinds of stuff it has no business tampering in. >>guest: that is right. so what they are doing is attacking a person but they cannot attack a problem because they only have one solution and that is more government. and more and more and more debt. it isn't good enough just to take over a sixth of the economy with obamacare new they will chase out the private lenders out of the student loan business

and create the freddie mac and fannie mae of student loans. >>neil: with strong language like that and i understand way are saying you aring aing if we keep going it will kill the system and us and we cannot exist at the rate we are going, you use words that were so inflammatory you would almost expect a joe biden or the president if that matter to pick up and the president has done that in the past, not with you but other folks, that you would have hurt your cause with that language. what do you say? >>guest: well, why think it hurts the cause. if you take a look where the federal budget is we are in a big mess and in a big mess because of the fact that the president all he wants to do is to take things over and spend more money that we don't have. the hard earned taxpayers' money. that is a serious problem. the entire federal, all of federal functions of the government that we thing of normally what the federal government does, that is being financed by debt; that is a

serious problem. that is stage three socialism of cancer. and when we get addicted that everything has to be done by the government, the money is not going to work and the whole system will come down. so, i feel strongly about it and anyone what take as good look at where the numbers are like i do on the budget committee, this is serious stuff. >>neil: now you have joe biden on your hiney now. meanwhile, from student loans to housing to reno, nevada, where president obama is putting pressure on congress to pass housing reforms. my next guest is widely recognized as among the country's most successful breakers even in a lousy economic environment. good to have you. we appreciate you taking a couple of minutes not to take calls. you have been arguing, look, all of this stuff is glorified

band-aids. just step it. >>guest: right. all we are doing, is trying to help at mar general. -- help at the margin. we cannot get proper appraisals so we cannot get a deal. >>neil: the appraisals are too conservative. they used to be too liberal. >>guest: they used to be too liberal and maybe there was a lot of fun any stuff going on with the liberalization of the appraisals but let's go back to normal appraisals and go back to appraisals that make sense and move the housing market, we are not moving the housing market with the programs. >>neil: what would you do? you thing they have to be less skittish. >>guest: banks have to lend. i have a situation right now, reef lyle situation a client not a first time home buyer $5 million apartment in new york and the net worth is in excess

of $120 million. okay? he wants 30 percent financing to purchase an apartment. we are having trouble getting him 30 percent. he is willing to put down 70 percent. >>neil: is he a drug runner? >>guest: in the most conservative business, with zero debit. >>neil: there has to be something wrong. >>guest: it is a jumbo mortgage because it is over $500,000, over $800,000, over $1 million. >>neil: why not paying tax? >>guest: he wants the mortgage deduction for $1 million. >>neil: so, i understand what you are saying, but yours is unique. average folks, you are saying if he can't get it who can? ing banks could say he is the last guy, they should say, look at who borrowing the money. if i believe in you and you are borrowing the money, i don't have to look at what you are

buying but what he is buying is stellar, and, now, why can't he get a loan? and this hasn't gotten to appraisal. wait until we get to appraisal. this is a credit committee. >>neil: the lenders have to loosen up. appraisers have to loosen, and one has to lead the other. >>guest: perhaps they have to be prodded. i would recommend possibly the administration look into prodding the lenders to loosen up. that will cause a housing recovery. if employment follows. of course, employment is the other big deal but if we can get all the ducks in a row we can prove the housing market but not the band-aid, not this program, not that program, all the programs and i am not sure what the purpose is, because i don't see a report card on them, do you? have you seen anything that says look how well this works. >>neil: i cannot be a lawyer and realtor in the same show. thank you, dolly. good stuff. i wanted her to tell me what

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all one of the biggest criticisms, romney is this, he is humorless, that surfaces all the time in discussions about your husband as a candidate. what do you think of that? >>guest: well, i don't accept it. and that's the beauty of having me getting out there and dispelling things that are not true. he is a funny guy. and he is spontaneous and got a great sense of humor. but i will tell you these are serious issues that he is talking about and this is a serious race and this is serious time. >>neil: his other half, the key to seeing his other side, ann romney sitting the campaign

trial for her husband and a republican strategist says it is smart to feature her more, are you saying maybe him less? >>guest: no, just have her there all the time. she is a secret weapon. she fantastic. warm, great personality, a wonderful speaker, getter on this stuff and she can come up with interesting, wonderful things and someone who fived cancer, and m.s. and still getting the job done, that is impressive. >>neil: a lot of people don't foe that part about her or what she will deal with or how she could handle that if she becomes first lady so it does raise questions about whether she would physically be up to the job. >>guest: sure, she will do what she can do but she is out there, now, and she will be this as a trooper and an inspiration to people who is had to deal with the diseases and what a wonderful first lady. this is inspiring.

>>neil: why do they bring her out? it must be saying something about what they fear romney isn't? >>guest: if you have a jackie kennedy or laura bush, ann romney you are crazy not to bring them out. she should be there and her husband, i think, mitt romney is warmer and funnier and better when she is there and it highlights she is the father of four kids she a good dad, good husband and supportive. it shows his character. and now grandchild. >>neil: but you think that is an image -- his image minus the stories. >>guest: i hope he comes back with a prank. i would like to see adult pranks. >>neil: does that give people pause? bit a minute, this guy ... >>guest: that he has a personality when he was a kid? bring it back. be the big kid.

why not? >>neil: it calls into question whether this happened, relatives of the alleged victim have been criticizing how this became politicized and they did not say which way. >>guest: give me a break, they are bringing up something he did as a kid, it is not like anyone got hurt. >>neil: but that will turn into what president obama was doing in college and what this guy did in prep school. >>guest: that is what happens. this is distraction of the weak. another distraction. julia and the boy. >>neil: you did not think it is a big deal? >>guest: no, the democrats will do anything to not talk about the economy so bring out the bullying, and julia, and anything and everything to distract. that is what it is. distraction of the week. >>neil: you not a fan of the president.

financial stocks off, the president on a warpath but he may want to be careful there was a time when a certain senator was on the same warpath and you know what happened to him. ve hundreds on car insurance over the phone, online or at your local geico office? tell us bobby, what would you do with all those savings? hire a better ventriloquist. your lips are moving. geico®. .

♪ >> neil: finally, hell has no furry like angry banker. dick lugar finding out the hard way. bankers never keen on the indiana moderate republican. but when senator lugar dared to vote against an amendment that would have locked cap on debit card swipe fee, they set out to swipe lugar and block him getting another six years in office. that's when the market watchers robert schroeder reports commercial banks started spending their dollars to, as schroeder brilliantly put it, the little known dade who took on a senate goliath. that little known david was the indiana state treasureer richard mourdock who pounded

lugar being pro-spending an antibusiness. mourdock never said anti-banks. he didn't have to. the banks made the connection for voters themselves. now add in president obama who is bashing banks to an art form. now given v.p. morgan chase's $2 billion boo boo of a trading loss he will likely take it to a new regulatory art form as well. none of this is surprising that the growing condo line of angry bankers are easy to do to this president what they just did to that senator. i wouldn't bet my passbook savings account they would succeed, but then again, lugar could be on the verge of becoming a united states senator, because most folks thought the banks pricy snit would succeed either. but look what has happened. dick lugar is packing. obama, maybe. maybe. the financial guys might not topple you,ut